Why is transfer case so dam hard to shift?

[MDDisco]

What could cause transfer case to not shift easily?
03 Disco with 65 K miles
Transfer case fluid changed at 58K, not milky, just dirty oil

Did not start having problems until recently.

Transfer case is Extremly hard, sometimes impossible, to shift from L-H and H-L either in Neutral stopped or rolling under 3mph.

Dealer called and said they cant determine cause until they break it down, at my cost to figure it out. Its still under Xtended LR warranty. In my opinion, its broke, fix it cause I have an extended warranty. But we all know how that goes...

Anyone know the labor time to remove the console, remove the plate(??) to get down and look? They told me around $400 to break it down and put it back together if nothings found.

Any ideas??

[Frank84]

This is going to be a long post....

Here's my suggestion. You can try to get the dealer to do it but they may complain - I'm not sure. Or if you have a set of box wrenches, a screw driver, and some ramps or jack stands you could try it yourself.

There are two things that could cause your problem: One - your shifter could possibly have frozen or the cable that runs from the shifter to the case could have frozen as well. Two - there's a problem inside the actual case or the shift interlock (located on the case). I doubt it is the interlock because I think they either work or don't work - no half way in between like you describe but nothing would surprise me.

I'd try to isolate the problem and see where it is coming from without removing the console. If you drop the front driveshaft (four nuts on the t-case and four bolts/nuts on the diff end) you'll have just enough access to get up to the case to remove the high/low cable from the case. The four nuts on the t-case end aren't hard - use a 12 point box wrench if you have it to start then switch to the open end and keep spinning the shaft to get better access to the next nut by jacking up a front tire and putting the trans in neutral. If I remember right the cable should be connected to a small arm about 2" long with a funny bolt/clip. Just use a flat blade screw driver to lift up the clip and slide it off the funny bolt (that's the official name). Take the cable off the arm to isolate the shifter from the case. By the way, make sure the exhaust is cool before you start:)

Now that the cable is off, you'll be able to do two things. One - shift the shifter all by it self to see if that is sticking. Two - shift the case all by itself (chock the wheels) to see if that is sticking. To shift the case you'll have to move the little arm with your hand - it will be stiff but can be done without straining yourself. If it only goes one click (neutral) then spin front out put on the transfer case (where the driveshaft used to be attached to) a little and try again - this is equivalent to letting the car roll while shifting.

This brings up one more point. If you're trying to shift from high to low or the other way around and the truck is stopped the t-case may stop in neutral and not want to go further. Simple shift the trans to drive or reverse and back to neutral and it should go the rest of the way without having to roll the truck. Works 95% of the time (proven statistic).

Got it?

[MDDisco]

When it feels like it moves into gear the "gear grinding do not shift light" comes flashing on the dash which "I assume" means dont shift into any gears.

Ive have tried to shift to drive and and back to neutral and it just grinded.


Dealer told me they cant figure it out without me authorizing them to take the console apart to find the problem. In other they must of looked at it from the drivers seat and said "nope, doesnt work". So what did they actually do to find the problem rather than trying to shift it into gear, which I could do.

I thought if you have problem, you take to dealer and they diagnose the problem and they let you know what its cost/ whether its under warranty. Why is it they they would not even taken any thing part to even try and find the problem? Dont techs get paid to diagnose a problem? better yet.. hasnt this ever happened before? Usually a like problem has a like solution. Sorry for bitching... this is just adding fuel to the fire after the dealer said there is nothing they can do to fix my burning 1 qt per 1000 miles problem.

P.s. Why would they charge me 4 hours labor to rip the dash apart when they could do it your way?

[Frank84]

If you have long skinny arms you could actually do it my way without removing the driveshaft even (did it once this way) but it's worth the 15 minutes to take it off. The dealer may want to go through the console because they either don't know that going from underneath is possible or they figure if it is the shifter then they'd have to take the console apart anyway.

Removing the center console isn't horrible - but it is close! I'd want $400 if someone asked me to do that so the price is not surprising. It doesn't really require any special tools, but it requires special care and patience if you want to avoid breaking all the little plastic bits. I've done it a few times with success on the DII, but my classic had old brittle plastic that didn't survive as well. The rivets aren't bad but by the time you get to them you're fed up with finiky things. Next time I'm in there I'm welding nuts to the bottom plate and using stainless steel screws.

Anyway, Your "gear grinding don't shift light" is not what you think - it just is warning you that the t-case is in neutral so if you put the trans in park you will roll. It's a little overkill with the beeping and all. That "feature" on my dad's DII broke years ago:D Just ignore it and keep shifting.

If your trans is in neutral and you're stopped (or going literally 1-3MPH - aim for 1) then it should not grind. It may clunk, but should not sounds like gear teeth clashing (no synchros in there). You're making it sound like your truck isn't really in neutral when you think it is. Try this: find the right hill and coast at 1-3 MPH and shut the motor off but turn the key back to the "on" position. Then shift the trans to neutral (to release the interlock) and try shifting the t-case. How does that work? You should be able to do this with the car stationary as well but the rolling helps a bit.

[rvrsrvc]

Is the extended warranty reimbursement requiring you to go to only the dealer network?
Most warranty programs, original or extended, do not pay well for diagnosis even if a fault is found. That may explain why they are preparing the situation to cover their time. Look at it this way: If the customer is not prepared to cover the teardown, and the extended warranty is not going to pay for diagnosis, why should the service provider take the risk of doing work that they are unlikely to get paid for? Or having a to deal with an unhappy customer? (The customer is likely to be unhappy either way-having a problem with their car that no one is initially prepared to take responsibility for and having paid for a extended warranty that requires the customer to pay more in certain situations.) Then there's the " I didn't build it, buy it or break it" position of the service facility.
Not what you want to hear, and the previous issue, although frustrating, is unlikely to be related to this issue. If the transfer case doesn't shift smoothly, there is a problem.
Well, of course if you put the transmission into R or D with the transfer case only partially engaged in L or H, you'll hear the transmission trying to turn the transfer case without much success!
Dealers can be frustrating at times- keep your cool and use common sense. Suggest that there is obviously something wrong, ask them to offer a solution and then ask what if their intial efforts don't resolve the issue: Where does that leave you and what will they do next? If you have to spend money, ask for something in writing that details to your satisfaction the steps.
Going to Hunt Valley? Ask for Leon Kedzerski to work on it- He was one of my mechanics at Treasured and an incredible diagnostician. At my shop, he was salaried and sometimes to my dismay, would put in the time to resolve difficult problems. Now that he's likely flat rate, maybe he's gotten a little faster!
Just my 2 cents.
TRevor

[MDDisco]

Ok heeres the deal:

They said the shifting mechanism was gumed up. They said they took out the pivots and then put in bolts for "easier service next time". My question is if it was just gummed up why did you have to replace anything? If you replace something that is a mechanical failure. There is no maintenance plan for the shifting mechanism that I know of.

1 st time dealer called it would cover it because it was corrosion
2nd time they called they wont cover it cause its caused by road debris

Called LR and waiting to hear back.

If it was just gummed up as they said, all they would have to do is hit with some WD40 and its all done. But becuase they took out the pivots and replaced them with bolts Im under the impression it was more than just gummed up.

Any advice to go to dealer with?

[rvrsrvc]

I'm slightly confused: Who is "they" and what is "it"?
Is the Rover at a LR dealer or a used car dealer?
So someone removed the clevis pins and fitted a nut and bolt? Ask for the Land Rover Tech Bulletin that approves of that repair!

[MDDisco]

I'm slightly confused: Who is "they" and what is "it"?
Is the Rover at a LR dealer or a used car dealer?
So someone removed the clevis pins and fitted a nut and bolt? Ask for the Land Rover Tech Bulletin that approves of that repair!


Sorry my bad..

"They" is LR Hunt Valley

"It" is the Shifting Mechanism under the console above the transfer case. LR Hunt Valley said they they removed the pivots and and inserted new bolts "for easier servicing next time"??? I dont really know why you remove the pivots it it was only gummed up? Even better, like you said, put in bolts where there were pivots before?

P.S. Does anyone have a actual picture, maybe of a rave CD, that would have a picture of the shifting mechanism?

[Rugbier]

Are you Discoandaboat on Dweb?

I suggested my point of view there.

Any how this guys have a pic on their website

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x285/briandunnington/fj40/shifter/shifter_tc.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fj40.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_archive.html&h=480&w=640&sz=44&tbnid=4eZqOgG-MlgJ::&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddiscovery%2Btransfer%2Bcase%2Bshifter %2Bpicture&hl=en&usg=__89WvXubAWGBFQnABY0XMhFsbyRU=&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

or

http://www.roverlandparts.com/transfercaseshifters.aspx

good luck

P.S. I used to deal with D.L in service at LR Hunt Valley


Sorry my bad..

"They" is LR Hunt Valley

"It" is the Shifting Mechanism under the console above the transfer case. LR Hunt Valley said they they removed the pivots and and inserted new bolts "for easier servicing next time"??? I dont really know why you remove the pivots it it was only gummed up? Even better, like you said, put in bolts where there were pivots before?

P.S. Does anyone have a actual picture, maybe of a rave CD, that would have a picture of the shifting mechanism?

[MDDisco]

thanks for the pics. after my many experiences with LR hunt valley they always try and F people. I feel like they are trying to get this one over on me too!

Thanks for the advice I see what happens and keep you all posted!!!

[Frank84]

I'm not so sure replacing the pin/clip with a nut/bolt is a good idea. Where the cable meets the arm needs to be able to pivot as you shift. When you tighten the nut/bolt it will inhibit this a little and make is a little harder to shift (back to your original problem). If they put a nyloc nut then it would work since you wouldn't have to tighten it all the way to keep it from loosening.

[MDDisco]

Lost my battle, but didnt lose the war.

Edited...
Ive learned my lesson.

Thanks for all the help and comments. You all have been great.