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Frank84
03-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Anybody ever convert to manual crank windows? I'm tired of mine breaking. Right now the right rear has a bad motor and the left rear is on its way out. I have a spare motor from years ago that works a bit, but it doesn't seem "strong".

New motors are expensive and I'd like to give crank windows a go before I try another used motor. Anybody do this before?

grnthng
03-08-2012, 11:09 AM
Frank, i remember you saying something about this when you were looking at my '83! You have 3 options....you swap the motors/regulator with the manuals/crank, however the mounting holes for the bolts and crank handle may or may not be the same depending how the door was stamped and year of donors! I don't think any of the later models had crank windows...so you would have to research pre-85 models!
I tried to change my front door frames to get rid of the vent windows.... and soon gave up, to many changes!

I think the best and 2nd option is to just find a donor with 4doors and manual windows (I know very rare...you may have to go look in other countries)!
Also you have to confirm if you have inner or outer hinges!

You have a third option.... and that's, you could buy my '83 and you will be good to go, and you could donate the Strange Rover's 4spd to replace the 3spd in the '83! Nothing wrong with the 3spd..in fact I think its gearing is actually better for wheeling...its just not so hwy friendly!

galen211
03-08-2012, 11:11 AM
Come on Frank. Time to break out those engineering skills and design it yourself. Then sell it to the rest of us.

Frank84
03-08-2012, 09:21 PM
You have a third option.... and that's, you could buy my '83 and you will be good to go, and you could donate the Strange Rover's 4spd to replace the 3spd in the '83! Nothing wrong with the 3spd..in fact I think its gearing is actually better for wheeling...its just not so hwy friendly!


Tempting! But I just got a 5-speed to put in mine...but that is another topic for another thread...

Frank84
03-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Come on Frank. Time to break out those engineering skills and design it yourself. Then sell it to the rest of us.

haha - well, i was looking at it and started doing just that. Next thing you know, I've gone way off course and have something that will be well beyond my fabrication skills and tools and perhaps not any cheaper than just buying a new motor.

If I could find doors with the mechanism that would be great, but finding them in the US will be impossible and by the time I find them in England or somewhere and ship them here I'll be getting close to just fixing it correctly.

So, right now i have everything taken apart and this is what I've found:

The good:

1. I do have what appear to be the holes and cut outs in the door for manual windows if I could find the factory parts.

2. If you remove just the electric motor and leave the "gear box" in place, it would be easy to weld a little shaft to the gear and stick a crank on it.

The bad:

1. Someone has had my door apart before and removed things with a sawzall. Welding will be required to get this mess back in there properly. Ugghhh.

2. The gear in #2 above is in a horrible place for actually cranking the windows. A crank will hit the floor where the rear seats are mounted on. You would have to open the door to adjust the window. Since this is just a back window and I almost never sit back there this could actually be kind of funny...

3. After removing the motor, the gearing your arm would be left with if I attached a normal size window crank would be about 50-75% less than all the other cars with manual windows that I measured (luckily, there are a few in the driveway for reference). i.e. - it will be tough to turn.

So, I've come up with two options which are entirely dependent upon how much time/money I want to put into this project.

#1 Cheap/Quick: $10/30 minutes: Remove the motor and cover the hole on the gear mechanism to keep dirt out. Weld a ~2" long, 3/8" drive extension to the end of the gear and make a hole for it to stick through the door panel. I could then give my rear seat passenger the 3/8 drive ratchet to lower/raise the window. Since the ratchet doesn't need to go through a full arc this would work out just fine and wouldn't hit the seat base. Just flip the switch on the ratchet to change the direction you want the window to go. Also, a ratchet will provide more leverage than a traditional sized window crank so that will be good. This would be pretty ghetto but I'm kind of digging it for some reason. No part of the electric motor or mechanism would be harmed so you could always fix it properly later (minus the hole in the door panel). The only thing I have to go check out and think about some more is what will keep the window from falling down (damn gravity!) and just spinning the gears and 3/8 drive extension since the motor would no longer be in place.

#2 Expensive/time consuming: Actually design something to relocate the position of the crank while still using the original electric window mechanism (minus the motor). It would need a gear reduction mechanism of some type which could be as simple as a longer crank. There isn't much room in there to work with, but there might be room for bicycle gears from the rear cassette and a small section of the chain. This would give gearing options as well as make it easy to get drive from a conveniently located window crank back down to the gears on the factory mechanism.

I'll take some picture to better show what I'm talking about.

galen211
03-09-2012, 09:06 AM
I like the ratchet idea. Simple, easy and smart.

crazyfish
03-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Ratchet. Is IS the Strange Rover after all.

Frank84
03-10-2012, 12:21 AM
Well, I took a closer look and unfortunately the motor is what is keeping the window from falling down. There's a clock spring that acts as a counter weight of sorts but it is the worm gear in the motor that keeps the glass from moving. This makes it much more complicated because now there needs to be some way of locking the window in the position you want it. Without the motor, I can move the glass up and down with my hands easily so if I hit a bump it will definitely fall down.

Laugh at the plumbing supplies if you want but I cobbled something together quick out of what I could find in the basement for a prototype and it actually worked. It didn't work well, but it worked. If I use two hands I can turn the knob to raise/lower the window but inserting the ratchet makes it much easier. The red lever operates a jam nut that locks it all down when you get the window where you want it.

Unfortunately, It is going to be much more time consuming and a bit more expensive to make this than I had hoped so at this point I'm going to have to sleep on it and figuring out if it is better to just buy the damn motor.

rijosho
03-12-2012, 04:29 PM
That is AWESOME

Frank84
03-12-2012, 06:08 PM
That is AWESOME

haha - thanks. I think I'm going to put the window project on hold for now. Since it is a back window it isn't that important. I've got much bigger issues than a window not working. But I may pick this up again in a few months and see if I can actually engineer something a little better looking and working.

One of the bigger issues is welding to the cast gear on the motor. I'm NOT a welder by any means but I can usually get two things to stick together, but the cast gear was a challenge. The weld wire just kind of fizzled on it and then looked like kind of sponge-like. I guess a little pre-heating may be in order. Problem is that I don't have extra gears to practice on.

rijosho
03-12-2012, 09:19 PM
For the front passenger door would you put a really long extension on your drive so you could open it from the driver's side at the gas station? That would be really cool haha. I tend to find that the gas station attendants in NJ see my sliding windows on the D90 and try to talk through it on the passenger side like I can unlock the freaking thing and slide it open, give him the key to the gas cap, then pay him through it. Dude just come to my side!

Frank84
03-12-2012, 10:39 PM
That would be great! I could definitely run a long extension across to the driver's side and then remove it when I have a passenger. Knock on wood, but both my power front windows are still functioning okay. And I have the same issue with my 90. Lately I've just been getting out of the car. I think it actually speeds up the attendants a bit cause they're afraid I might try to pump it myself.

Lyle4LClover
03-21-2012, 08:17 PM
What would you give me for a brand new in box passenger side window regulator and known good motor? Make an offer, it's here in Robesonia. Sold the truck. I know new they're rediculous in price. I do not plan on buying any more coil sprung trucks so any reasonable offer takes both. Let me know. I have very little Range Rover parts left and a few Disco I parts I'd like to unload.
Thanks, Lyle

Frank84
03-24-2012, 02:10 PM
What would you give me for a brand new in box passenger side window regulator and known good motor? Make an offer, it's here in Robesonia. Sold the truck. I know new they're rediculous in price. I do not plan on buying any more coil sprung trucks so any reasonable offer takes both. Let me know. I have very little Range Rover parts left and a few Disco I parts I'd like to unload.
Thanks, Lyle

PM'd you

Nomar
01-17-2014, 10:25 AM
Well, I found my way to this thread after chatting with Frank about 300Tdi projects!
Hey Frank- Jeff here....

It got me curious; my pride and joy is the 1991 RR Hunter.
The Hunter model supposedly came with manual window cranks and no sunroof.

In all my years looking for/at Hunters, I've only seen one with the manual windows.
All the others, including mine, had the dealer option sunroof + power windows($1500 in 1991).

Anyone seen the U.S. manual windows?

Frank84
01-17-2014, 12:26 PM
Hi Jeff!

Never saw a hunter with manual windows myself. I may revisit the manual windows someday but mine are all working at the moment so there's little motivation.