Trials Concern - Prizes

[DiscoSux]

I understand the reasoning behind the increase in the value of the prizes for the trials event but it just occurred to me how this may very well likely have a rather large negative effect on these events.

A valuable prize such as a winch will certainly make scoring much more critical. I don't think this is healthy for the club. Vying for a gift certificate and the coveted trophy is enough to put some of the competitors on edge. Now we are adding a prize that many more folks will get down right serious about winning - I know I sure would like to get a new winch for one of my trucks!

Let's face it - these are loosely run competitions. They are basically social events with folks gathering at the interesting areas of the course while other areas have one person trying to watch a 50 yard stretch.

Was the gate hit or did a root in the ground make it move?
Is it clearly announced BEFORE the first person is off the line that a shunt is allowed in a particular section?
Is the order of trucks fair for the next section?
Can you "catch up" if you fall behind for a repair and need to run the last section or two?
Heck, I never even realized that there were no prizes given out on the "novice" day until last year! Why is that? It doesn't seem to bolster new interest in the hobby. But I digress...

ALL of these "offenses" have been gladly overlooked in the past with the spirit of having a good time. I don't know if that will hold true for this weekend.

I ask that the club officers consider these concerns before the even this weekend. I foresee some heated arguments and tense moments, not what this club is about (I thought).

Thanks for your consideration.

Dave Kase

[Tom109]

Dave,

I encountered the same situation running Observed Trials (mtn.bike) events in the 1980-90's. The solution was a firm set of ground rules in printed format - everyone knew exactly how things worked. These were reviewed and questions answered at the Riders' meeting. Be sure to state where the buck stops - this is the organizers final say.

It can be a slippery slope. What do you do with the "novice" when scrutineering finds F&R lockers?

[galen211]

Dave McMullan bought and donated the winch to the trials. It was never something that we had any knowledge of until after the fact.

That being said, we have another winch to raffle at some point. Only pre-requisite will be membership.

[galen211]

Besides, you can't win it anyway Dave. You're not a novice. :D

[DiscoSux]

Thanks for the comments.

I want to apologize as I thought the club had purchased the winch in effort to bring our bank account in line. I had no idea Dave had purchased it and donated it.

I certainly would never intentionally or even remotely mean to be disrespectful to any McMullan. This family had introduced me to this crazy thing we sometimes call "Rovering". I am truly sorry if my comments offended Dave and/or Lyle.

My thoughts and prayers are with Dave as he gets up to full speed again. I suspect we will see little effort from him to relax this weekend. I would, however, appreciate it if he didn't lift my truck off the ground with the Kubota this weekend. :D

[DiscoSux]

Dave,

I encountered the same situation running Observed Trials (mtn.bike) events in the 1980-90's. The solution was a firm set of ground rules in printed format - everyone knew exactly how things worked. These were reviewed and questions answered at the Riders' meeting. Be sure to state where the buck stops - this is the organizers final say.

It can be a slippery slope. What do you do with the "novice" when scrutineering finds F&R lockers?

This is exactly my point. I'd rather leave it loose and fun. Let's face it, there is no novice day and advanced day as far as competitors are concerned. The courses may be different but the same folks are running both days. I think that is fine in the spirit of keeping the most trucks on the trail. Who wants to camp and hang out all day Saturday or Sunday of you can't "run"?

I guess what I am trying to say is that I love the Robesonia Trials as I have experienced them over the past 5 years.

[qbenplaya00]

trophies, pat on backs and fun times should be the prizes for events... raffling should be done for donated items and proceeds go to the club. if not then this raises something else within the club.

there should then be rules categories and sub categories. different prizes for each. it gets complicated to keep it fair and politically correct. for instance you cannot expect for a modified defender to go verses a stock disco in the same event.

i mean my opinion doesn't mean much but i feel we should keep it for the love of the sport/brand/comradery.

[87xj95disco]

ever since we started the novice we had a prize to hand out. just this year trying to get more new member to come out and try it. thats why we went for a bigger prize. the members that are showing up for novice are no longer novice since its the some ones over n over.
VERY little money comes out of the club account. donations from dave,AB,rovers north, and this year i got northern safety company. Try to send out 20+ letters n phone calls on your time n money and see how many you get. Now the cartery called last night they wont be able to make it due to there ****ed up ordering and staffing. we are there to have fun and finally get to see our follow members and get caught up from our time apart. life sucks,so much going on with work and family BS with other stuff around us but all ways find time for us to get together and relax. The prizes are just there for like a treat. testing you and your diving abilitys.
i do enjoy coming up and setting the courses and seeing how everyone had a good time at the end of the weekend. Having members stop me say thanks had a great time. we learned so much from the club member and will be back next time. Thats what i get out of it. the satisfaction of seeing they had a great time.
Now with all this **** going on i think im done !!

[87xj95disco]

i try to take everyones ideas and comment and add it to the club.
I know you cant make everyone happy.

[mlp141]

Random thought -- if there is such great concern over this (which to be honest I am not sure there is) why not do an NBA draft-style raffle.

Something like giving first place 10 tickets*, second place 9, etc. down to the 10th spot in a raffle for the driving competition (not our usual tickets for purchase raffle) prizes. That way the odds of winning the top prize are better for those higher on the podium but it builds in an element of chance and less reliance on a perfect scoring system.

I agree that everything we do as a club should be loose and fun and encouraging club members to get out there and try things is great. I have only done the trials once -- in Lyle's series -- and had a blast. I didn't do it for the prizes but for the hell of it. I would hate to see our gatherings become "events" where people randomly join the club just to go to Robesonia in hopes of snatching a great 1st place prize, and then are never heard from again.

I love R.O.V.E.R.S club because of the FAMILY atmosphere that exists and with each and every passing year I feel more and more part of that family. Friendly competition is a good thing but not what the club is, nor should be, about.

Just my two pence.

--Michael



* We could use the F1 points system for ticket distribution:

1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point

That's a total of 101 points so each driver has approximately his/her points as his/her odds of winning the drawing. i.e. 1st 25% chance, 5th 10%, etc.

[DiscoSux]

i try to take everyones ideas and comment and add it to the club.
I know you cant make everyone happy.

Of course Mike. I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise. On the same note, I thought I had a valid point...

[Rob P]

I like the tickets to win prizes idea. 10 gates clear equals 10 tickets.

[DiscoSux]

if there is such great concern over this (which to be honest I am not sure there is)

I agree that everything we do as a club should be loose and fun and encouraging club members to get out there and try things is great.

I would hate to see our gatherings become "events" where people randomly join the club just to go to Robesonia in hopes of snatching a great 1st place prize, and then are never heard from again.

I love R.O.V.E.R.S club because of the FAMILY atmosphere that exists and with each and every passing year I feel more and more part of that family. Friendly competition is a good thing but not what the club is, nor should be, about.

Just my two pence.

--Michael


You appear to be contradicting yourself, good sir. :confused:

[DiscoSux]

why not do an NBA draft-style raffle.

Something like giving first place 10 tickets*, second place 9, etc. down to the 10th spot in a raffle for the driving competition (not our usual tickets for purchase raffle) prizes. That way the odds of winning the top prize are better for those higher on the podium but it builds in an element of chance and less reliance on a perfect scoring system.




* We could use the F1 points system for ticket distribution:

1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point

That's a total of 101 points so each driver has approximately his/her points as his/her odds of winning the drawing. i.e. 1st 25% chance, 5th 10%, etc.

At first glance this appears to be a FANTASTIC idea!! Great prizes but more of a separation from questionable hitting a gate and possibly losing a $500 prize. Brilliant.

[bossongs]

Dave, Appreciate your concerns, but believe you are over thinking this.

Lyle, I'm bringing my Lawyer on Sunday...is it safe to assume that will only cost me the normal spectator fee? (He can pack the pizza away!)

Steve B

PS - what model is my new winch?

[DiscoSux]

Dave, Appreciate your concerns, but believe you are over thinking this.


Steve B

PS - what model is my new winch?

That's ballsy...putting those two sentences together... ;-)

[mlp141]

Contradicting myself? How so? Honestly I don't think it's a big deal. I did, however, suggest a system of scoring to help address things if we collectively agree that things needed to be changed. I will not be winning anything because I'm not driving, but I do want those involved to have a good experience.

[devildog01]

Dave has a valid point. I don't give a s $&t if I win or lose at the trials. I would gladly pay $100 just to spend the weekend at the McMullen estate. Great people, great food and great location. The core of what makes the trials fun is there is no winner or loser. It is a learning experience and a social gathering. I like winning a t-shirt or a lev-o-guage but if you start throwing in high dollar prizes things can get askew. Robesonia is fun because we all make it fun. If it ain't broke, don't brake it.

[DiscoSux]

Contradicting myself? How so? Honestly I don't think it's a big deal. I did, however, suggest a system of scoring to help address things if we collectively agree that things needed to be changed. I will not be winning anything because I'm not driving, but I do want those involved to have a good experience.

and I think your suggestion is a perfect solution...

The contradiction I mentioned (light-heartedly) is that you say you don't know why there is a concern then go on to list those exact concerns..

" if there is such great concern over this (which to be honest I am not sure there is)"


"I would hate to see our gatherings become "events" where people randomly join the club just to go to Robesonia in hopes of snatching a great 1st place prize, and then are never heard from again.

I love R.O.V.E.R.S club because of the FAMILY atmosphere that exists and with each and every passing year I feel more and more part of that family. Friendly competition is a good thing but not what the club is, nor should be, about."

Cheers

[DiscoSux]

Now with all this **** going on i think im done !!

Mike -you are at most every trials set up and do a fantastic job in working with Lyle to make the trials events great. Please don't take my concerns as criticism.

I never b-itched, I was merely sharing a concern. If you are not interested in concerns of the club members then perhaps you need to rethink your position in the club. I also have concerns about Galen's choice of pajamas at SCC but that's a different conversation...

I am and always have been appreciative of the efforts you, the McMullens and the rest of the volunteers and club officers have made. Especially Dave and Evan who graciously offer us great places to wheel and camp.

Some feel I have a valid concern, others do not. I shared it and that is all I can ask for - the chance to share it. I will be there regardless of how the event is run (although I am not sure about the naked tree climbing event Lyle wants to run as the "11th course")

[galen211]

You know you want polar bear jammies for yourself. Admit it.

[crazyfish]

Overall I probably agree with Dave but don't tell him that. A problem with a great prize is that not everyone may need a winch, or tires, or roof rack or whatever. Hey, it was tried and we can move on from that. I guess I would like to see more prizes ( 1- 5 ) and/or a better raffle table selection.

[DiscoSux]

Galen - yes, I want polar bear pajamas and, you're right, I would never admit it.

Sean - I didn't hear a thing. Your secret is safe with me.

Mike - great job as always, being in charge is tough - a lot of "suggestions", criticism and so on but at the end of the day EVERYONE appreciates it. Thank you.

Lyle - FU ;-)

Dave - thanks for the great venue and great donation! This club is truly blessed to have you and Evan to provide a place for us to eat, drink, camp and, most of all, "Rover".