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crazyfish
01-20-2007, 01:13 AM
Well....
Three ? years ago I tried to get the newsletter in only PDF format. 1) I did a bad job of it, 2) lots of folks didn't get email and 3) it was before it's time.

Let's start this discussion here. I do like getting real mail, I like the forum, I hate yahoo groups but understand the attraction.

Go.

solihull109
01-20-2007, 09:40 AM
Real mail is cool, I like old fashioned ways of thinking... BUT I think that there are enough members logging onto the forum to have it downloaded instead.
Now, I think that Galen is doing an outstanding job with the newsletters and postcards, however, since I'm fairly new, I had no idea the expense the club was shelling out to do so. As a business owner I look at that as money that could be spent elsewhere....ie, to possibly secure more real estate for the club, hold events that can attract other Rover owners who "had no idea this exsisted" attitudes, that's a hefty lump of change to be "throwing away".
I realise that not everyone in the club logs on a daily or monthly(some maybe yearly?) basis, but maybe an evaluation of those that are current and not so current, and provide a solution for that scenario.
As I'm typing this, you guys probably already have been through this, so maybe this is one more thing "fish" boy can poke fun at me with, I dunno.
Just my .02. would love to help if needed, and can even make coffe...However NOT nearly as effective as Stuart, we need to set up HQ. at his house, I don't have a commercial cappacino/expresso machine at my place:)

flippedrover
01-20-2007, 10:52 AM
I don't have an issue if we stopped mailing the newsletter and announcments and stuck with the website/forum/email. The only thing I think should be mailed out would be things like proxies for the annual group meeting. Sean if you don't like yahoo groups is transfering the email list to the same site that hosts the website a possibility? The search and rescue group I'm a member of has a couple of email lists associated with it that are not yahoo based. Do we know how many members use the web/email versus regular mail?

mlp141
01-20-2007, 11:09 AM
I think we are foolish if we do not use this site for all that we can. It is pretty well established at this point and honestly, what percentage of our membership does not have access to the net?

That said, if there is a small contingent hell-bent on getting the newsletter mailed, why not charge a subscription fee for the printed material. It will not only off-set production and mailing costs, but assuming that the number of people who do request a hard copy will be relatively small, it will mean much less work for Galen. I think he spends as much time putting the newsletter together as he does printing and preparing them for mailing. Moreover, if the newsletter goes PDF, it will mean FULL COLOR and unlimited copy and ad space. It will look like a regular magazine-style publication, but will simply be a digital version.

However, if the plan really is to make this site the only source of communication for the club, I would think that perhaps it might need to be tweaked to bring greater attention to major announcements, up-coming events, the newsletter and the like.

jason
01-20-2007, 11:21 AM
There are roughly 118 members on the yahoo group e-mail list. Some are not current members, and about half are expired. We have about 150 current members, not including extended family. We have many more expired members. Every month I send out at least 50 renewal notices. We do add new members every month, more than expired or deleted members that I drop off, so we are still growing. The forum, I believe, is the preferred medium for new members, however,

I feel the newsletter is very important for three reasons:

It sets our club apart from just a message board gathering.

It is a tangible, physical "thing" that represents the club that people like to get. There is no-one that doesn't like getting it and seeing their truck, or their mug, or their friend pictured or mentioned.

We have sponsors that we are responsible to represent.

And one more reason, Galen loves doing it!;)

sven
01-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Jason has a good point about the physical-ness of a newsletter. I enjoy actually printed materials as well.

The yahoo email thing is just too old-school for me, this forum is much better.

solihull109
01-20-2007, 12:29 PM
Well, it sounds as though most prefer mail, of some sort. So what could be done differently to help offset the cost of the newsletters/postcards. I also agree that Galen likes to do the work, that's the impression I always felt. So, any ideas.
We could hold a public chop shop...laugh all you want to, but what if we found a clapped out Rangie with some good bits for REAL cheap( I happen to know of one), chopped it for parts and listed on ebay for profit and used those funds. Members could have a CHOP day and donate some time, most of you already know how fast a Rangie comes apart so....that's just ONE of my delusional ideas, anyone else? You can all laugh if you so desire.....:)

jason
01-20-2007, 02:10 PM
Actually, we've already pared the cost down significantly by buying our own high end printer that Galen uses. We don't have to pay a printer to deliver the same high quality feel that we can get on our own, but the ink and postage is expensive. We no longer send newsletters to anyone 6 months or more overdue on membership, and with the next newsletter we will also be billing our ads. My goal is to have advertising cover the costs of production, and postage will continue to be a general club expense. We need more articles and contributions from members, including buildups, restorations, trail-rides, and such. Someday, I'd also like to see the editor-publisher-distributor-printer be compensated for time spent. It does take time to put together something as professional and slick as Galen does.

solihull109
01-20-2007, 02:30 PM
In that case, I can start submitting articles of projects that come into the shop. I'm sure someone would like to see a 300 tdi fitted into a Rangie, or a series(it's tight). I'm not a "service" facility, so I can't provide lists of services like so other mags do etc, maybe we could talk Trevor into that. But for the odd stuff and custom suspension work etc, I'd gladly submit my work, does that help. I'll also pay to advertise as well, I do prefer that word of mouth be my best advertisement, it's true that most(if not all, actually) have not seen any of my work. I'm sure I can also get some others involved in that aspect. A good friend of mine runs OK 4WD and Tire in Stewartsville NJ, I'm trying to work out deals with them for tyres and I'm sure they would advertise as well.

jason
01-20-2007, 02:36 PM
OK 4WD is the only dedicated 4X4 shop near me. I got my tires installed there. Good guys. Advertising is $100 a year (4 issues) for a half page ad. I would love to see a TDI put into a RRC! Too bad I didn't know you two years ago!

ccalado1
01-20-2007, 05:46 PM
I don't know about you guys but the stuff that gets mailed to me hangs around for a long time,whereas emailed stuff is forgotten quite fast. I check the forum quite often but I think there are members who don't so we cannot just forget about them. I think a mix is probably what we should be looking at. Furthermore, if people are not paying their dues then they should be off the mailing lists, if after a couple attempts to remind them they did not renew then out you go until you pay up again.

My .5 cents.
Cristina

galen211
01-20-2007, 10:23 PM
Let's see if I can get all my thoughts down in a coherent fashion.

First of all I don't mind doing the newsletter. Putting the newsletter together is not time consuming, printing the newsletter is not time consuming. Folding, labeling and posting the newsletter IS time consuming.

Now that I will be living near club members (Sorry Carey didn't know you were that close when I did the last one) I may enlist them to fold and stamp newsletters. Oh BTW, Stuart and Sven, want to help with the newsletter?:D A couple of people at that stage would make it go very quick.

Trevor, Frank and Jason do an outstanding job giving me articles for the newsletters. Having said that what I don't like about the newsletter is that is has basically been the same everytime and I blame myself for that. For instance I think the newsletter is a little Series heavy. Not much for the LR3 or RRS driver, but no one in the newer vehicles is stepping up to help out. I can't write about what I don't know. I would love to see some new people write something different. Carey if you want to write something that would be awesome or anybody else out there for that matter. Of the 150 members in our club we here from 20-30 at events and online on a regular basis beyond that I have no idea what people want and gettting them to care seems difficult at times.

I should have been more clear about the expense of the newsletter, the club can afford it, it's not like we are breaking the bank with the cost. But I see a problem arising with something like SCC and the forum. The 20 people that use the forum all signed up before the postcard ever got to the other members that depend on the mail. This is mostly my fault because I screwed up the postcards the first time around and had to re-do them. Sunbury is another example as it had such a short time from the announcement of the date that I had no chance to send postcards once all the proper information had been determined.

I'm not sure what I'm saying with all this but the newsletter isn't bad and I like doing it but I think we need to carefully consider how to use the newsletter in conjunction with the forum.

jason
01-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Galen, I agree that the forum seems to be an unfair advantage, but it is an unfair advantage for the "active" club members. (I include the people on the yahoo group list in this, as well, since they receive the information at the same time.) We know that, for the most part, the same people are participating in the same events all the time, and we really aren't turning away anyone, yet. A waiting list is a great idea since we all know that cancellations happen all the time. According to my calculations, (which is done every other week), there are fewer than 15 people that don't receive any e-mail or forum notifications. Of these 15, about half are expired, and 4 are friends out of the country that wouldn't likely attend an event anyway. I know the current situation is an explosion in the popularity of the SCC event, and the Robesonia events. To me, that's a good thing. No one wants to put on an event and not have anyone show up.:o I like the post-card notification to serve as a reminder to those that may have forgotten to keep up with club happenings, or as a reminder to check on the status. I know that after a post card is mailed out, I get a ton of e-mails from people making sure that they are still active members. I really appreciate that. It makes my job a lot easier.
BTW, a PA gathering to fold and stamp sounds like a great idea!;) I hear Stuart can cook and Carey can supply the beer.:D

Evan
01-21-2007, 10:45 PM
I like the e-mail group..and the forum ..

spechols
01-21-2007, 11:01 PM
We can have a group fold anytime you want at my place.
We need to protect Galen's fingers so he can put in the new plumbing at his house.:D

solihull109
01-22-2007, 12:15 AM
From what I hear, if Sean shows up, he doesn't need indoor plumbing, he'll just use the front yard!:D

crazyfish
01-22-2007, 01:25 AM
At SCC it's the back porch, we are much more civilized than the front lawn!

Frank84
01-22-2007, 02:32 PM
I'm a little late to the party here, but I agree with Jason that it is nice to get the physical newsletter in the mail. It's nice to lay on the couch and read something and then be able to pin it up on my wall. Galen has done an amazing job putting that together. I've enjoyed writing the articles and sending pictures, but people must be getting bored of these since I send somthing similar in every time. I'll have to come up with something more creative for the next one.

The forum is a great way to communicate with each other and I find it much easier and more user friendly than the old yahoo system. I still read all of those emails but have stopped sending them since it is so much easier to use this method.

galen211
01-22-2007, 02:41 PM
The forum is a great way to communicate with each other and I find it much easier and more user friendly than the old yahoo system. I still read all of those emails but have stopped sending them since it is so much easier to use this method.

X2 That stupid thing makes me log in every time I try to do something and I can never figure out if I am sending a private or a group email.....

mlp141
01-22-2007, 02:55 PM
Me Three on the Yahoo thing. Besides the fact that it hates me and I can never post, unless you save them all it is impossible to go back and search for something. This forum allows the user to search for specific topics or to revisit previous discussions.

I want to clarify that I too enjoy the hard copies of the newsletter, but I feel that as a medium it is limiting. If I remember correctly, Galen mentioned an eight page maximum because of postage. If we are lucky enough to generate a 50/50 ad/editorial content percentage, that leaves very little room for stories and art. The web allows for limitless space, color, content and the like.

Certainly Galen is doing a fantastic job with the Fairlead and to be honest, if my schedule weren't so heavy I would love to be more involved. I suppose that many clubs can tout this, but we have a great mix of individuals who are active in our club, including photographers, web designers, mechanics/fabricators, etc. We're a very creative and capable lot and I hope that we can all contribute what we can to take both the newsletter and this site to new levels.

pushngo
01-22-2007, 05:19 PM
I like the Fair lead If you could run an abreviated version and offer a link to the whole story on the site That way you could have more pics and more traffic to the site and if people feel their pic may appear they are more likely to visit and the site would open up the area to post more pics with the articles, not that I like to see pics of myself.. just an idea.

jason
01-22-2007, 06:50 PM
If I remember correctly, Galen mentioned an eight page maximum because of postage. If we are lucky enough to generate a 50/50 ad/editorial content percentage, that leaves very little room for stories and art. The web allows for limitless space, color, content and the like.

It's a vicious cycle. The more paid advertising we have, the more pages we can include. Of course, more ads require more pages, etc. The fact is, if I can collect from all of our sponsors, then the postage will become a non-issue, self supporting newsletter, as it were.

If we had more articles, pictures, and editorials, we would justify the added postage expense. I agree that we have a plethora of talented club-members and there should be more stuff to include. Consider the fact that we have professional writers, photographers, and Rover experts, we have enough collective talent to fill a book each quarter, let alone an eight page newsletter.

galen211
01-23-2007, 08:31 AM
Coincidentally, Sean did you ever get the CD I sent you with the pdf newsletters and the pictures from the Sunbury set-up?

Our "current" newsletter is from 2004 on the website.

flippedrover
01-23-2007, 10:25 AM
At SCC it's the back porch, we are much more civilized than the front lawn!
Yeah because we park in the front yard!

mlp141
01-23-2007, 01:12 PM
Speaking of the newsletter, who won the photo contest?

That said, we need more contests.

jason
01-24-2007, 07:09 PM
One more thing to add. There is currently over $1,200 in outstanding membership dues. I send out the notices via e-mail every month. If you don't know your expiration date, or have never received a notice, send an e-mail to membershiproversclub@yahoo.com. $1,200 buys a lot of ink and postage, not to mention prizes for events.;)